PetHobbyist.com's 11th Annual Chat Month Complete Chat Month Schedule and Transcripts Subscribe to our free email newsletters about pets and animal issues Email Address:

PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at kingsnake.com, I am pleased to welcome Adam Britton to our 11th annual Chat Month..

PHFaust: Adam Britton's long-standing interest and research on crocodilians has provided many adventures in the wilds of northern Australia, many of which feature in the numerous documentaries Adam has appeared in over the past 12 years.

PHFaust: Adam runs Big Gecko, a consultancy business specializing in crocodilian research, conservation management and documentary filming. He is also writing two books on crocodilians, including one on husbandry co-authored with Chris Dieter.

PHFaust: Adam will answer questions on any aspect of crocodilians, whether it's biology and behaviour, keeping crocs in captivity, or working in the field with crocs and film crews.

Adam Britton: hi everyone!

PHFaust: Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls I present Adam Britton!

Adam Britton: wow, what an intro!

PHFaust: First off, How was Darwins Birthday?

Adam Britton: We celebrated in style, with a new exhibit opening here on croc evolution

PHFaust: I understand Supercroc was there!

Adam Britton: I'd not come face to face with Sarcosuchus before, he's an impressive beast

Adam Britton: yes, and we even have the guy who discovered him (Paul Sereno) out here in a couple of weeks, for a forthcoming doc on croc evolution

PHFaust: Very Familiar with Paul Sereno, as is SoLA... He works closely with the Chicago herp Society here.

SoLA: Have you ever fed fruits or vegitables to crocodillians and monitored effects on them (behavior, weight, muscle tone, blood, etc). ? I am working on putting a small study together and I am gathering info, as I have seen some interesting documents of this behavior...thoughts?

SoLA: this would be omnivorous study, not exclusive fruit or vegitables

Adam Britton: I was (still am!) pretty skeptical about how important this really is, but you can't fault the observations. I suspect it may be "displacement behaviour" (ie. an artefact) but I'm certainly keen to see a study. It would make sense that little or no nutritional benefit would result. It's interesting to speculate whether they can get benefit from partially digested gut contents of prey (once cellulose etc has been broken down).

Adam Britton: re; displacement behaviour, I don't think anyone has observed this in teh wild have they, only captive animals.

Adam Britton: Some vits and nutrients may well make it into the blood supply though.

StickyHands: How did you get the name Big Gecko for your site? Are you into geckos at all or it just a metaphor?

Adam Britton: It's a bit of Northern Territory humour: we call a gecko a "wall crocodile" and a crocodile just a "big gecko".

PHFaust: LOL

Adam Britton: I hope we don't take life too seriously, in other words.

StickyHands: heh cool i just wondered, nice way to live

mromero92: What is the adult length of a dwarf caiman? And also what does their diet consist of in captivity?

Adam Britton: dwarf caimans generally grow around 3-4 feet in length, a few getting a little longer (I think around 4.5 ft is the largest I've heard of), males slightly bigger than females. Trigonatus are also larger than palpebrosus (which is the smallest species).

Adam Britton: As for diet, I always advocate as varied a diet as possible. Whole prey, partial prey, meat, mince (with supplementation), even prey available ad libitum (eg fish etc).

Adam Britton: Fish, insects, crustaceans (eg. small prawns, crayfish), small mice, rats, it obviously depends on the size of the animal as to what you'd offer them, but honestly the best advice on diet is to vary it and offer a broad range of nutrients.

Adam Britton: There are also artificial feeds available for some species, although I'd suggest sparingly with these.

Allister_nr: Are you working in any way with the gharial project? Or for that matter any croc conservation projects?

Adam Britton: We are part of the Gharial Conservation Alliance but frankly our involvement is highly limited. I would like to get more involved but then I'd like to grow another pair of arms and a second head for good measure to keep up with everything!

Adam Britton: At the moment we're concentrating on management of saltwater crocs, trying to open up opportunities for traditional owners to manage croc populations better in Australia. We're also looking at pygmy populations of freshwater crocodiles (C. johnstoni) as this has conservation significance especially in light of cane toads here.

Adam Britton: Someone published a recent study showing a 70% loss of freshies in some areas where toads had moved in, and that reflected some of our findings as well. It's a worry but because it's a tiny croc and doesnt rip your head off it's hard to get much attention for it.

Adam Britton: We're also still involved in the Croc Specialist Group as much as we're able.

PHFaust: are the cane toads capable of killing an adult croc?

Adam Britton: An adult cane toad can kill an adult freshwater croc (2.5 metres) although obviously it's dose dependant: bigger the toad, bigger the dose, greater the risk.

Adam Britton: (oops, sorry - that's why pygmy crocs are under greater threat)

EvaLee_nr: I would like to get a caimen, however I have heard some nasty things about their temperment. I work with american alligators. Any Suggestions to a great starter caimen?

Adam Britton: If you're looking for good temperament, you didn't chose the best group of animals! ;) However, lots of factors can influence temperament, and I firmly believe that raising environment and interaction is a big one.

Adam Britton: I've seen individuals of most species that are "hand tame" although I'd never be entirely comfortable on that issue of trust because crocs tend to act first and think later. They also habituate to a particular person, and may attack another who is unfamiliar to them, so you need to be very careful.

Adam Britton: Genetics can also play a role: some crocs are just calmer out of the egg than others, no doubt about it, and unless you can choose individuals from different clutches you can't control this.

Adam Britton: I could go on for hours about this, but a final point is also training: if you distance any kind of signals associated with "food" from those signals that you're going to handle the croc, you have a better chance of not getting bitten. But all crocodilians are more likely to be aggressive than not when you raise them, and you have to manage them appropriately.

butters_nr: Wasnt there a new species discovered this year?

Adam Britton: butters, well there are a number of potential new species about to make an appearance if current taxonomic work pans out, including perhaps two or three new Nile croc species

Adam Britton: The one discovered this year was the splitting of Osteolaemus: first verifying that tetraspis tetraspis is a valid species separate from osborni, and secondly finding a third potential new species which hasn't as far as I know been named yet

Adam Britton: There's a lot more going to come out of this field I think in the near future, including caimans. Plus, we're looking at the genetics of pygmy freshwater crocs - we don't think they are a new species as such, but there are likely to be some differences to non-pygmy populations.

PHFaust: So that made 24 right?

Adam Britton: I think it will be 25 species shortly once the Osteolaemus one is named.

Monkee_nr: Do you feel that enrichment is needed? I noticed at St. Augustine they offered a variety of frozen items in ice...... Would this be something a keeper at home could do? also are you familiar with target training? Do you feel that could possibly lull a keeper into a false sense of security?

Adam Britton: actually yes, I'm a big fan of enrichment. Crocs in the wild are very active and very curious animals (it's just that they don't have any hands so tend to bite things that interest them!). I think we should be looking at giving them the same opportunities in captivity.

Adam Britton: We have two salties which interact regularly, and it's fascinating to see behaviours that you'd normally never witness. Simple enrichments in terms of different feeding regimes, challenges such as finding food in hidden places, and even giving them "toys" to investigate (ie. bite) are showing a lot of potential.

ecdysis has left the room

Adam Britton: We target train our crocs for filming purposes, so it's very useful to elicit behaviours we need.

Adam Britton: I do think it's something that can be tried "at home" if you like. Offering food in ice is an interesting one! In terms of false sense of security, well I'd never go as far as to lower your guard when interacting with a crocodile anyway, even with a highly habituated one just in case you give it hte wrong signal, but I can't see any significant harm in careful training no.

Adam Britton: Not to mention, the general public are fascinated by the concept of training crocs - they realise they're smarter than they're made out to be.

SoLA: Do you notice a lot of "team behavior" with animals of the same species when kept with other species? I ask this because it has been an undoubted observation of mine and you work with a larger selection of individuals and species than I do so I would like to hear some other reports (or lack of)

Adam Britton: well perhaps, but I don't see many mixed species situations so my experience in that is limited - however, it matches what you've seen to an extent, although I really haven't seen it enough to be able to draw any firm impressions.

SoLA: fair enough, i would say my observations are limited in this as well, thats why I asked

Adam Britton: It does make sense though, particulary for the more social species that are used to interacting with each other. The signals given between members of the same species are less likely to be interpreted correctly by other species, and so you may be seeing an artefact of that.

SoLA: seen in temporary housing instances

SoLA: thank you. my thoughts as well

Adam Britton: Yes, that's where I've seen it also, so I think it's an interesting observation that logically makes sense (audible, postural, chemical signals that a species specific), but I'd be careful about reading too much into it until I knew more.

PHFaust: Adam do you think on a whole Crocodilians are fairly social animals? I know one thing we do with our rescue animals is basically teach them to interact with others for future placement.... But I wonder if they are very social

Adam Britton: It certainly depends on the species, as some are far more social than others, but I also think that some species thought of as being highly territorial and antisocial can be far more social than is generally thought when circumstances are right.

Adam Britton: Social interaction is influenced by so many things, including individual temperament, health etc, but mostly by available resources: in simple terms, if there's plenty of it there's no need to fight over it.

Adam Britton: But we're also suffering from what I call archaic knowledge where preconceptions impair our ability to see what's actually going on, and I think with a lot of new people coming into these fields they're challenging existing conceptions and seeing new behaviour. I know crocs are doing some remarkable things, but it's often different to witness or interpret.

Adam Britton: Trouble with animals brought into captivity like that, Cindy, is that they're usually stressed. And stressed animals may act aggressively regardless, and with crocs being able to inflict so much damage I'd generally be cautious about putting individuals together unless it was well thought out. There's also the risk of disease as well.

mromero92: Do dwarf caimans require UVB lighting along with supplements? And another question... Would a large horse trough work as an enclosure for one?

Adam Britton: No crocodilian requires UVB lighting, BUT! I think they can benefit from it. Croc farmers have long kept crocs / hatchlings in the dark, but more recent findings suggest this isn't actually the best way to go. It may not affect calcium absorbption but it may have other benefits along with UVA. So I would recommend considering it, but I wouldn't worry overly if you can't because a healthy diet and proper husbandry are more importan factors.

Adam Britton: A horse trough? Well, depends on the size of the trough relative to the croc. Whatever you use, the croc needs plenty of space to move and turn around freely in both water and on land. The more the better, frankly, and if you can plan ahead because crocs certainly do grow quickly, you'll save yourself a heap of cash in the long run.

Adam Britton: Ensure the croc has plenty of land, that trough sounds like it could be limiting for that.

dingoblue: TY for coming online Adam, are all crocodillian sexes determined by temperature?

Adam Britton: hi dingo, I'm onilne far too much my wife says!

dingoblue: sorry all species of crocodillian sexes detrmeined by temp? lol

Adam Britton: Yes, all crocodilian sexes are influenced by temperature. The embryo starts off as a female in every case, and during a temperature-sensitive period if the temperature falls within the critical range it can switch on the development for a male. The actual temperature ranges vary between species.

dingoblue: so what species are the most affected sex wise with climate change?

Adam Britton: yes, same for all species, and generally the critical temperature range is around 31 to 33 celsius (whatever that is in F!).

PHLdyPayne: (88 - 91F )

dingoblue: do you see climate change as a threat for crocodillian species sex wise as far as a population issue?

Adam Britton: That's a good question about climate change, because in theory all crocodilian species shoudl be affected. However, habitat and nesting material can be important, so those species in areas that use nesting materials like broad grasses or mud that may result in warmer temperatures may be more critically affected by climate change than those whose nests may be cooler due to materials used.

dingoblue: so how do you think that crocodillians survived the mass extinction at the end of the cretaceous?

Adam Britton: It could be, but then it could also simply result in a shift in nesting behaviour. Bear in mind that crocs have presumably had temp-dependent sex determination for millions of years and gone through various climatic change events, and they seem to be doing ok, but certainly a lot more research is needed.

Adam Britton: I think they survived because they lived in a freshwater ecosystem, which were generally more resilient at that extinction event. They had a better chance, plus they could survive for 1-2 years without food or on very low food intake, and were able to survive. But really, who knows.

SoLA: I was trying to keep two younger gators housed together at a similar weight, and when I skipped a feeding on one to balance them slightly (to maintain this exhibits shelf life a bit), the unfed gator gained weight while the other lost the expected amount of weight from the diet control. Thoughts on this and where my control could be better? (this was with only one feeding session so I understand it is difficult to say for sure. I was just curious to hear your thoughts) . by the way, the climate change and sex ratio was a very interesting question dingo

Adam Britton: sola, well as you say a hard one to judge from one feeding session, but there's one consideration that is valid. There's been enough research on diet to show that a continual supply of food actually results in a lower food conversion rate compared with an irregular supply. It is likely to do with the amount of time food spends in the gut, but could be more complex than that. In fact, better growth rates may be achieved by feeding less frequently.

Adam Britton: Another factor is behaviour - if you feed a croc it often seeks warmer temperatures, and may as a result become more active. Of course, this is hard to extrapolate to a single feeding event but worth considering.

SoLA: the food is given quite varied, which makes it difficult to record keeping efforts

Adam Britton: Again, going back to an earlier point, this is the kind of scenario where you can experiment a bit more with feeding regimes in teh knowledge that you're doing groundbreaking work - get away from the farming mentality that's pervaded croc nutritional requirements and look for a feeding solution closer to that experienced in the wild.

SoLA: interesting, but the weight gain....water?

Adam Britton: possibly, possibly also a reduced activity and a lag effect, errors in weighing (!), it's not what you'd have expected I'd agree.

Adam Britton: send me an email and tell me more - I'm interested

SoLA: Ill keep you posted when I get together some more records to throw out a few possible errors (like weighing)

dingoblue: why are alligator species less aggressive than crocodiles or caimen?

Adam Britton: Because someone insulted the crocodile's mother and he's been holding a grudge ever since.

dingoblue: gators are the weird bird of the croc world

PHFaust: I thought it was because american alligators were like us americans, laid back and lazy. ;)

SoLA: then explain the Chinese Cindy

PHFaust: at least thats what I always tell folks

PHFaust: no personal experience with them gavin

dingoblue: sinesis and mississippiensis have different morpholigies in the head shape, and a more polae distribution

Adam Britton: But really, ask anyone who's been attacked by an alligator! I've never seen it cut and dried between species, some individuals are really aggressive and others are placid, and often in species you wouldn't expect. There's a captive gator at the local croc farm which has far more balls than most of the salties! He chases you out of the enclosure.

dingoblue: also Adam, what is the most southerly population of crocodilians in the world?

StickyHands: yea maybe its due to competition in the places they live

PHLdyPayne: maybe he watched too many episodes of Irwin being chased by Aggro...

Adam Britton: it could also be temperature-dependent: if alligators are more likely to be encountered in colder conditions because of their latitude, it goes that they're more likely to be encountered in a more torpid state. But that's stretching.

SoLA: ive seen little gators eat a crocodile..."team work"

goini04: Haha...agreed there, Adam. I've taken in gators that you'd swear was raised around a Nile or two :)

Adam Britton: the most southerly population is Caiman yacare, although reports do vary a bit

dingoblue: interesting, what about Australian species?

Adam Britton: Argentina is more southerly latitude than northern Australia. You're going to make me have to check to be sure!

PHFaust: LOL get out the globe!

Adam Britton: Load up Google Earth!

dingoblue: ty, so how far south do Aussie crocs go?

Adam Britton: About Rockhampton on the east coast, and about Broome on the west coast, so Rockhampton is the most southern distribution in Australia

SoLA: How far north in Illinois do Crocodillian species go ; )

PHFaust: Milwaukee gavin

PHFaust: sometimes

SoLA: lol

SoLA: nice

jeffb: somebody call the USGS we have a range extension...

PHFaust: LOL

Adam Britton: I've seen alligators in Minnesota in the snow

PHFaust: We have sent them to Colorado and they make snow angels....

Adam Britton: (I'd better not tell that story)

SoLA: wow...anyone from Windsor with more reports???

dingoblue: must be waiting for the burmese python migration

PHFaust: not without bill present to defend himself!

dingoblue: are the more southerly crocs smaller in size to due limiting factors?

PHLdyPayne: that thing about 100 years half the US be overrun by Burmese pythons made me laugh...more likely to be overrun by feral cats and dogs...

SoLA: it is run with feral cats....so there is a food source

Adam Britton: Ok, Argentina is much further south than Rockhampton (you made me check!)

jeffb: Adam do you forsee a day when the Aussies loosen their herp restrictions?

Adam Britton: *laughter*

goini04: Take that as a "No" Jeff...haha

Adam Britton: No jeff, I don't see it happening any time soon.

jeffb: Thats ok by the time they loosen up down there we will be so tiught upo here we'all all be prayin for corn snakes

Adam Britton: Actually, I'm being facetious, there has been some relaxing of rules between registered institutions, but I don't see large scale commercial export happening in teh current climate.

jeffb: except to germany.... ;)

Adam Britton: That's about all I can say about that.

PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us here at kingsnake.com, Thank You for taking your time to chat with us. Transcripts will be posted with in a few days. Once again, Thank you Adam!

jeffb: lol thank you for being our guest tonight

SoLA: Thank you again Adam.

Adam Britton: Thanks for having me, and thanks for all the interesting questions. I'm happy to talk to anyone anytime: find me on crocodilian.com or big-gecko.com :)

Adam Britton: Right, I'd better get back to work - catch you some time down the track

PHFaust: Thanks Adam, as always. Be sure to thank your wife for me too, for letting you play on line!

PHLdyPayne: Well, I am off. Night all and thanks for coming Adam, it was very interesting