PetHobbyist.com's 11th Annual Chat Month Complete Chat Month Schedule and Transcripts Subscribe to our free email newsletters about pets and animal issues Email Address:

PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at Kingsnake.com, I'm very pleased to welcome Bryan Grieg Fry to our Eleventh Annual Chat Month.

PHFaust: Dr. Fry is a self described venom researcher/global snake botherer, however his research and contributions are far more extensive than he often gives credit to.

PHFaust: Dr. Fry is the head of the Venomics Research Laboratory at the University of Melbourne. He is also a go to person for film crews needing expert advice and animal management for shoots in Australia and beyond.

PHFaust: He has researched venom world wide from his work on the molecular evolution of venom proteins in cephalopods (cuttlefish, nautiluses, octopuses and squids) from tropical and temperate water to the controversial venomous beardies, He is discovering new and unknown things about animals in our world.

PHFaust: Dr. Fry is here tonight to help you with all your venom needs. An extremely popular guest for us, we welcome him back with open arms.

PHFaust: Dr. Fry, when you have completed your answer, please type GA so we know to Go Ahead. Ladies and Gentlemen, I present Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry.

PHFaust: And sinc Bryan Grieg Fry: e the room is slow on the queue, Out of curiosity has anyone ever studied the logevity of venom in snakes post mortem. How long does it remain active post death of the animal?

Bryan Grieg Fry: That is a very good question. I know of one case of a specimen being prepped at a museum where some venom was dried on the fang. The curator, somehow, managed to stick himself and had symptoms. But inside the gland it'll get gooey like the rest of the protein. SO if everything else start putrefying the so will the venom.

PHFaust: I would assume the symptoms were no where near as bad as an actual bite however?

Bryan Grieg Fry: nope because the amount of venom was small and most likely somewhat degraded

Bryan Grieg Fry: we have just finished a study on dried venom still very active after 70 years

PHFaust: Groovy... THis was a gaboon I was concerned with.

PHFaust: really? thats really interesting...

Bruteybull_nr: I heard you were in Antartica researching venom. Was this in reptiles?

Bryan Grieg Fry: No, none there. My cunning plan to get there was a grant app titled 'venom on ice'. The basic premise of which was that no one had investigated venom presense in any lineages. We scored on the octopuses (even caught two Antarctic Giants), anemones and bristle worms

Bryan Grieg Fry: Key to a successful grant app is a good title

Bruteybull_nr: anything exciting learned?

Bryan Grieg Fry: yes, the venom components in the occies are mostly very active enzymes and shared with temperate and tropical species. However, despite being very similar in sequence, they have all tweaked them to be most active at the temp of the water in the area. We are trying to figure out what changes have allowed that

Bryan Grieg Fry: temp is a huge variable influencing enzyme activity

Bryan Grieg Fry: too cold, they are too slow

Bryan Grieg Fry: too hot, they breakdown

Bryan Grieg Fry: Goldilocks phenomenon

PHFaust: Very cool, so you are more than a reptile man

Bryan Grieg Fry: anything venomous is good :)

solaris16: I am just finishing up my undergrad in biology, and am looking to travel to Australia next year before I enroll in a masters program. I am interested in doing some work with venomous snakes. Is there a particular person or institution you would recommend I contact who might be willing to give me some guidance or mentoring while I am there?

Bryan Grieg Fry: drop me an email closer to the time at bgf AT unimelb.edu.au and I'll flick you a few addresses

solaris16: ok, awesome. thank you :)

Jck: Can you tell us about some of your current research topics?

Bryan Grieg Fry: Jck, right now I am developing a general theory of how venom evolves. All venomous lineages have to start with their suite of normal body proteins to mutate for use as toxins. Plus they have to interact with another organisms. Some protein types have been independently favoured in multiple venomous lineages and some targets also independently favoured. There are no coincidences

Bryan Grieg Fry: Obviously certain evolutionary selection pressures are producing common outcomes

PHLdyPayne: Been hearing about the heavy rains in the Queensland area flushing snakes and gators into houses and the street. Any of this directly affecting you or your work?

Bryan Grieg Fry: Nope but it'd be fun to go there right now :) I was up in Cape York during the cyclone and it spat out some huge storms. I wrote about this in my blog venomdoc.blogspot.com

Clavo_nr: I heard recently that a venomous handler can only handle so many bites. I wonder, in your line of work, is this a real concern or some internet tale. If it is a real concern, it is more the effects of the anti venom or the bite itself?

Bryan Grieg Fry: that's a bit of a myth. Certainly there can be permanent damage but not accumulated toxicity. What is more of a concern is the build up of allergy from working around dried venom. Then even a neonate could kill from anaphylactic shock. This is a concern even to people who don't work around dried venom, for example keeping spitting cobras is an excellent way to develop the allergy. One mate of mine developed this in two years from her spitters and now any elapid could kill her just from allergic shock

Bryan Grieg Fry: One more addition..

Bryan Grieg Fry: the antivenom allergy is not a big deal now-a-days for high quality antivenoms (e.g. CSL, cro-fab) as compared to the awful old Wyeth product. However, some like the Thai antivenoms have a high incidence of adverse reactions. This has to do with quality control: garbage in, garbage out

Bubba_nr: Do you have a suggestion for someone interested in keeping their first venomous? Do you feel that interning or working with someone is important?

Bryan Grieg Fry: Definitely. Like anything else, learn from accumulated knowledge. This is why the laws banning venomous actually just make things more dangerous. People are still going to keep, just quietly. It stops the dissemination of knowledge. It also stops people from having good bite plans. I know of two cases in Melbourne alone where people rode out cobra bites (exotic are illegal here) rather than going to the hospital and risking losing their collection. I know of a mamba bite in the UK last week that was also rode out for the same reason (the local authorities have made it too expensive/difficult in that shire deliberately to keep vens out... or so they think). Any laws that bring that about, are bad laws. Plus making it illegal makes more attractive to the morons who will do anything just so long as it is illegal to make themselves lool 'cool'

Monkee_nr: What do you suggest as a first hot snake? And what was your first as a pet?

Bryan Grieg Fry: dance monkey dance!! Sorry couldn't resist that. First hot should be something with ready availability to training, easy husbandry, calm temperment and with access to antivenom. American copperheads are good as are gaboons. For elapids, monocled cobras usually calm done quite well as they age. First pet was a snake I caught when I was late 3/early 4 :)

Clavo_nr: How often do you work in the field as opposed to the lab. Which do you prefer?

Bryan Grieg Fry: Field as much as possible! Lab is a necessary evil to get the data to get the grants to keep going out into the field! I work insane hours in the lab in brief concerted bursts. Do 18-20 hour days everyday for 5-6 weeks and then be done for months.

JayP: what studies have you done on cape cobras.

Bryan Grieg Fry: Nada. Played with them but haven't done anything on the venoms myself. They are the most toxic of the African snakes (and likely the most mental too). Fascinating snakes. They are not a Naja at all (neither are forest cobras) as they are genetically on the other side of the tree and water cobras. So either the genus Naja has to be split or expanded. I am a lumper not a splitter so I'd prefer to see it expanded to included the tree (Pseudohaje), burrowing (Paranaja) and water (Boulengerina). Which looks to be the way it'll go

Bryan Grieg Fry: all under the Naja umbrella

PHLdyPayne: Has any of your research results been used to spearhead research into the use of venom proteins in medical research? I hvae come across articles here and there about parts of various snake venoms being used to help treat various illnesses and conditions.I am curious how your research helps in these efforts

Bryan Grieg Fry: We patented one component for the treatment of congestive heart failure. Whether this will translate into an actually clinical medication is unknown and many years down the road. But in the meantime its a handy line on the resume

butters_nr: Really interested on why a gaboon was listed in starters. Do they tend to have a more docile manner to them?

Bryan Grieg Fry: yep, quite calm. But watch the eyes, When they start flickering back and forth, the snake is getting agitated. This is as opposed to the extreme mentalness of puff adders

Bubba_nr: Fan of the blog BTW, but out of curiousity, do you keep reptiles on a personal level? And also how is the hand healing from the bite?

Bryan Grieg Fry: I only research the animals I find personally interesting. So there is no line between research animals and personal animals Hand is OK, the index finger distal tip will be permanently numb though... making my handwriting even worse than it already was!

Clavo_nr: What should be in every hot keepers house as a first aid/safety type of set up? You mentioned allergy, would it be smart to keep something like an epi pen on hand? Other suggestions?

Bryan Grieg Fry: epipen and pressure bandages (for elapids and some vipers). However, epi-pen must never be used on a person not in anaphylactic shock as the purpose is to raise the blood pressure, in a normotensive person this could result in severe hypertension and even possibly an aneurysm

JayP: any plans to write a book like the bushmaster book thats coming out

Bryan Grieg Fry: I am working on my autobiography and then I'll work on a venom book. The autobiography will be lke the blog but expanded and more philsophical. It'll cover *most* of the crazy things that I've gotten up to... but not all (some statute of limitations haven't run out [img id=em-5]

Triton20x: my snake isnt eating its a ball python he has eaten in the last 4 weeks and he hasnt eaten since

Triton20x: why

Bryan Grieg Fry: could be any number of reasons from not being hungry (balls are notoriously fussy) to the cage not being setup right to disease. Have someone experienced check out your setup or have him checked out at a vet

PHLdyPayne: As an extension to Clavo's earlier question, what would you recommend any new hot keeper or even current ones to have in an emergency bite kit?

Bryan Grieg Fry: epipen and pressure bandages and emergency contact numbers (including for antivenom)

Bryan Grieg Fry: the cutting and sucking devices do more harm than good

Bryan Grieg Fry: and electrotherapy is also useless

goini04: I apologize, as I just came in…so if this question has already been asked/answered, just let me know and I’ll review the chat transcript. However, as for my question…In light of all of the laws and regulations being brought about regarding the keeping of various reptiles and other exotics…as a venom researcher and professional handler, do you feel that the private hot keeper community can play a significant enough role in conservation and education that fighting for our “rights” can truly carry some weight in the legislature department?

Bryan Grieg Fry: yep, see above. I started as a private keeper as did most researchers I know who actually work with the animals (as opposed to those for whom venom comes from the fedex man the same way babies come from storks). I milk lots of private collections and they are an invaluable, irreplaceable resource. Plus the husbandry of any difficult species has almost always been solved by private keepers not zoos

FreaK_nr: mind if i ask how someone in the general public would even go about obtaining there own stock of anti-venom in the first place?

Bryan Grieg Fry: depends on what country you are in. For the US, venomousreptiles.org has the proceedure outlined in their FAQ page

Bubba_nr: What is next on your plans? I think on the blog you mentioned the amazon? What are you doing out there...

Bryan Grieg Fry: Been doing glamazons in the Amazon. I'll be attending another conference there in March and 'socialising'. No research in Brasil (legistlatively it is a nightmare even for Brasilians.

JayP: can you tell me anything about the Macrovipera lebetina's venom

Bryan Grieg Fry: Nothing nice. Lots of it, reasonably toxic and certainly a life-threatening bite. There also appears to be quite bit of variation between the different subspecies which has obvious implications regarding antivenom neutralisation. Gorgeous snakes though.

BURMTIC: Do u kno much on the venom of Bracheypelma Smithi?

Bryan Grieg Fry: quite a bit of work has been done it. Go to pubmed central and you'll get lots of articles. It is not dangerous to humans though. Theraphosid venom typically isnt.

indictment: This question might be a little controversial, but what is your opinion concerning private keepers owning venomoids? Or even your stance concerning venomoids period..........or perhaps someone asked this question earlier?

Bryan Grieg Fry: Elapids are time bombs. We've done quite a bit of work studying this. If just the duct is removed, it can be regenerate in only a couple month. Removing the gland solves some of the problem but the regrown duct can still envenomate, particularly for spitters. We've seen ones with the accessory gland/duct material near the fang produce enough venom to kill a rat. Less of an issue for elapids. As for the concept, I really don't have an opinion one way or the other. Some get very emotional because the animals 'mojo' is gone. But I am only concerned about animal welfare. An example is the unlicensed, unhygienic butchery done in Melbourne by a certain well known freak who has delusions of grandeur combined with paranoia. A potent combination!

Bryan Grieg Fry: e.g. done by licensed vet, with proper anesthesia, antibiotics, post op care etc

Triton20x: do we have any idea what were doing for the ban against it i cant stand watching all this shows about it

Bryan Grieg Fry: ban against venomoiding?

Triton20x: no ban against pythons

Bryan Grieg Fry: aaaaaahhh righto...

Bryan Grieg Fry: educating politicians sound like a good idea in a real world. But they prefer to pander to popular opinion, and popular opinion has about as much to do with reality as religion.

goini04: hahahaha! I love that final comment.

PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us here at Kingsnake.com communities, we want to thank you for taking your time to chat with us. Transcripts will be posted with in a few days. Once again, Thank you Bryan.

PHFaust: Please visit Dr. Fry's blog at http://venomdoc.blogspot.com and his website at http://www.venomdoc.com/