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Transcript: Kevin McCurley International Reptile Conservation February 27, 2009 PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at kingsnake.com, I am pleased to welcome Kevin McCurley to our 11th annual Chat Month.. PHFaust: While Kevin is known most for his amazing ball pythons, he is also a large scale retic breeder. Dealing with large pythons and the sale of the animals is what led us to inviting him to chat on this topic. As the HR 669 looms over all python keepers heads, we reached out to Kevin to chat on a very controversial topic. PHFaust: Tonight Kevin will be discussing judging your clientele, sale responsibility to areas where you may not know the laws, possible environmental impact of released animals, support post-sale, and what your rights are a breeder/seller to deny sale if you see fit -- topics that hit home for many owners and keepers as we face possible federal restrictions on our ownership. PHFaust: Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls I present The Evil Morph God, Kevin McCurley! EvilMorphgod: Beware, i am very EVIL! PHFaust: :) PHFaust: Would you like to make a comment? EvilMorphgod: Me? EvilMorphgod: Nah..... let's started EvilMorphgod: GA EvilMorphgod: I'll make comments as i go... PHFaust: Well I will start. When I asked you about this chat I have one concern. EvilMorphgod: My manners....right? EvilMorphgod: :) EvilMorphgod: I promise not to be ignant! EvilMorphgod: get "ignant" PHFaust: I wanted to know if you ever refused a sale if you felt someone would make a bad choice as a retic owner EvilMorphgod: I may just have EvilMorphgod: Yes, of course! PHFaust: Can you give me some things that would lead you to this? EvilMorphgod: Because they wanted the snake as a Novelty... EvilMorphgod: They want to walk around in public EvilMorphgod: they want to see it kill things... EvilMorphgod: when i hear that kind of stuff i just shut right down... EvilMorphgod: They are not reveling in the creature like most of us do! EvilMorphgod: You want to make sure that they have a grasp of the animal and their expectations are reasonable! EvilMorphgod: If I hear someone just wants it to jam in a bad set up i know it is a problem waiting to happen and the snake will suffer for it! EvilMorphgod: We do it at NERD and My store... EvilMorphgod: Actually had people get pissed.... EvilMorphgod: Whenever you sell a large constrictor you expect to have a few people coming back with husbandry errors so you want to make sure that they have some idea of what they are buying EvilMorphgod: I can handle a faster pace!! EvilMorphgod: Yes, I DO like COOKIES! PHFaust: lol EvilMorphgod: what is amazing is how big snakes in the news make easy targets and great for news - hype! EvilMorphgod: Distract people with their fears while other things go unnoticed! KurtS_nr: Hi Kevin, It's Kurt Schatzl from the New England Herp Society. My ? is do you check out local laws on the posession of large constrictors before selling to a customer or do you inquire of the customer what the laws are in their particular state? EvilMorphgod: Well, in NH they are more open minded while the next state over Mass is "leaner" EvilMorphgod: If we know that they are in Mass we tell them.... EvilMorphgod: Do we make sure that we control where they are from? No! EvilMorphgod: I am not going to be people's mommies! EvilMorphgod: As a rule most state you can still keep big constrictors... EvilMorphgod: and i hope we will continue to have that right... KurtS_nr: So it's up to the customer to know the laws in their state, which is a policy I'd agree with. EvilMorphgod: Generally if we do a ship out we do not check because i think there are few states like mass or NY.... and those we know! EvilMorphgod: Yes....I am more worried about teaching them about the snake.... set up....husbandry.... EvilMorphgod: I will say that i do not know why one state allows their possession while others do not.. EvilMorphgod: I can not say that I am always a fan at such limits... EvilMorphgod: I do not like hearing about people losing their rights to keep their pets!! EvilMorphgod: You can not keep a chameleon in mass without a permit? EvilMorphgod: makes NO SENSE to me in the present landscape where we are breeding them so well! PHLdyPayne: What process do you use to determined if a potential owner is a good 'fit' with one of your retics and other large snakes? How does this differ between your sales in store and online? EvilMorphgod: Well, when we sell over the phone we may talk to the customer several times...at that point you get a "feel" for the customer and what they want...also if they seem capable.. EvilMorphgod: if we start feeling like the guy is a "dolt' or something we become disinterested.... EvilMorphgod: in the store in general but not without flaw my knowledgeable guys "know" when they are dealing with a person that just does not seem right... EvilMorphgod: It is not worth the sale and i generally think my guys care about the animal's welfare and push for a better "fit". EvilMorphgod: I generally view most of my tic customers as intelligent very reasonable sounding guys.. EvilMorphgod: I have NEVER known a single problem with anyone getting a snake with my that gets out of hand.... EvilMorphgod: I do not make a huge number of retics because i believe that thee is a finite market out there and many people are falling into the fear of the big snake hype... EvilMorphgod: you can have a retic and stunt its growth if you try! EvilMorphgod: People hear Green anaconda and think instantly, BIG! EvilMorphgod: Not the case..male greens are relatively SMALL! EvilMorphgod: And you can keep one 6' without much effort! EvilMorphgod: But they are illegal in Mass!!!!! Come on!!! EvilMorphgod: We do not get as many crazy big snake people as you may think...they understand the size potential of the retics.... EvilMorphgod: If i fail to answer your point please let me know! PHLdyPayne: it was a good answer :) Pithons: Kev, Im in MA. I use to keep burms, and now strickly boas.. You meantioned about MA has the big snakes laws. Whats that, can i still keep 12ft burms? I really want a bateater... ?PS- what is GA EvilMorphgod: I know he has a GIANT leucistic RETIC!!!!!!! EvilMorphgod: I think you can get a permit..... if you show that you know your stuff and get a bit "pushy" they may give you the permit...Kurt from New England Herpes Society can help clarify that!! EvilMorphgod: I was kidding about "Herpes"! EvilMorphgod: Bateaters are smaller growing for sure and not much heavier than a big female boa... EvilMorphgod: You need a permit for that 12' burm in theory! EvilMorphgod: A class four propagators permit I believe... EvilMorphgod: I know people that have fought Fish and Game and WON! EvilMorphgod: Remember, you can not just take "no" for an answer. You need to prove that you are a qualified candidate to keep such a beast! EvilMorphgod: That seems pretty easy to do...if denied you need to examine your set-up or demand an explanation! Bubba_nr: Have you ever had anyone who wanted to return a large python that they got from you, because they felt they were over their head? If you haven't, would you accept it back if it were one of yours? EvilMorphgod: Yes, we have taken back snakes... EvilMorphgod: the problem that I hate is when people get a snake...take it home and stress it out and become afraid of it...tell us its nasty and bring it back.. EvilMorphgod: We of course take the snake out and show them that it is not in fact nasty but they are just confused.... EvilMorphgod: Remember, a snake in a new situation is frightened and nervous! EvilMorphgod: If it strikes the glass of the cage it instantly reacts as if its new keeper did it!@!! EvilMorphgod: We must expect the snakes a settling in period.... EvilMorphgod: Trust!!!!! EvilMorphgod: I generally will not sell a snake and let them return it for the same amount of $$ they paid! That makes no sense and stresses both me and the critter out! EvilMorphgod: Snakes are not coffee mugs.... EvilMorphgod: each has its own personality.... EvilMorphgod: Some snakes can be down right mental and not good for anyone..those seem to be the ones that stay here! EvilMorphgod: Much to my dismay... EvilMorphgod: That are known as the "he man specials" taylormademorphs: Hey Kevin. How far away are we from seeing true super dwarf Retics in a wide range of color and pattern morphs more readily available? Do you know where Pigpen disappeared too? EvilMorphgod: Ron..i have no idea...i think he plays WAY TOO MANY VIDEO GAMES!!!! EvilMorphgod: Ok, true dwarfs... EvilMorphgod: I am not a huge fan of all of that.... EvilMorphgod: I do not like the patterning of a dwarf as much as a normal for sure EvilMorphgod: The dwarfs are cool but i like a normal albino better than the albino 'dwarfish" EvilMorphgod: The ghost stripes are just silly and that is one heck of a nice dwarf combo.... EvilMorphgod: I have raised a 'dwarf" to 15' EvilMorphgod: But the nice thing about dwarfs they are easier to limit in size... EvilMorphgod: For sure there will be many more dwarf combos..but what exactly justifies a dwarf? EvilMorphgod: My Seleyars...Golden Child stuff...Dad is still only 8' EvilMorphgod: That is a dwarf in my book! EvilMorphgod: I think we will breed the dwarf stuff into the "mainland" insular form to create new stuff...but as far as seeing "true" dwarf mutations...we seem limited.... EvilMorphgod: Golden child, Ghost stripes.... and some stuff that i am sure i know nothing about....I am aware of almost nothing cool out of the wild for dwarfs.. EvilMorphgod: but i may just be stoopid! bamboo42: Is it a given that most of your customers are male? When you say "guys" do you mean that literally? The reason for asking is that a friend of mine used to have a small pet shop that sold snakes and other reptiles and amphibians, plus fish and pet supplies of all kinds. No puppies or kittens though they allowed the local no-kill cat shelter to use space for cat adoptions. Years ago I was in there with my two kids buying a mouse - freshly killed, too! - for our now 16-year old corn snake, and the owner told me that most of her new-to-snakes customers were "middle-aged" women with kids. Comments? EvilMorphgod: We have many small breed female customers for sure!! EvilMorphgod: you know..ball pythons...corn snakes...hognose and such! EvilMorphgod: I don't get many big snake females... EvilMorphgod: although there are a few...some of them seem to be the "goth" type....which is fine by me! EvilMorphgod: Snakes do make great pets and we often have kids that convince their moms to let them have one...then mom decides they like the snakes and the rest is history! OOJAD1: Hey kevin, I was wondering... what makes a soulsucker ball? Is it a woma lesser bred with a woma lesser? EvilMorphgod: Soul sucker... EvilMorphgod: ahh.... not that combo.... EvilMorphgod: I need to have a few secrets...right? I must!!!! EvilMorphgod: Let's just say it is hard to make and the average bear can not! EvilMorphgod: Hidden gene woma or sure!!!! HerpDude_nr: HR669 will 1-screen new species for problems before they can be permitted for import, 2-screen species in trade for problems, 3-let people keep their animals as pets. The industry hype is that it will ban all herps. Too bad. By working only to defeat the bill, you lose any chance to improve it. Comments? EvilMorphgod: Please expand that...I am a bit confused on that one! HerpDude_nr: expand which part? EvilMorphgod: the question....screen new species prior to import? EvilMorphgod: for what? disease? EvilMorphgod: all of that sounds dreadful! HerpDude_nr: yes, diseases plus invasive potential in US habitats (Burmese in FL) HerpDude_nr: rather than import anything you like without knowing what could happen down the road EvilMorphgod: Well, if we look at reptiles and decide to start banning them due to potential disease we are basically going towards shutting down all import.... OOJAD1: Kevin, what is ur view on the S. 373 forum that has been proposed by Senator Nelson of Florida? EvilMorphgod: I think we are pointing fingers as snakes and reptiles in general and needing things to blame. It seems that this can be used to just limit us.. EvilMorphgod: remember, we are breeding MANY MANY species that are free of such pathogens and still we are limited to state and federal rules... HerpDude_nr: actually it's all animals, not just herps HerpDude_nr: Gambian pouch rat is a good example EvilMorphgod: the burm thing in FLA in my opinion has gotten way out of hand... EvilMorphgod: we are going crazy over it and we talk more about a single species that has found a niche .. EvilMorphgod: Yes, it is a problem...but what about EvilMorphgod: Man, THE MOTHER of all terrible species that destroys everything without thought and not only drains the Everglades...we develop it!@ EvilMorphgod: It is an easy target.. EvilMorphgod: what about the habitat destruction from man's overgrowth? EvilMorphgod: No, we don' want to talk about that... EvilMorphgod: let's use fear mongering and such.. EvilMorphgod: let's put it all over the news for people that have no understanding of snakes to create a bunch of hype.. PHLdyPayne: Humans #1 invasive species HerpDude_nr: too late to screen humans. FL has Burmese, Nile monitor, spiny iguana, capybara, ... EvilMorphgod: this is using people's ignorance to make it bigger than it should be!!!! EvilMorphgod: Like watching Bill O'riley whine about anyone keeping big snakes.. EvilMorphgod: he know NOTHING about snakes in general and just wants us pushed aside as freaks!! IGNORANCE in the news teaches ignorance!!! EvilMorphgod: And in general i like O'Riley! EvilMorphgod: Ok, so we have invasive species... EvilMorphgod: what exactly are these invasive species doing compared to our daily destruction and pollution of that environment? EvilMorphgod: We will not stop so we need to point out the invasive species and hype it up like it is the brown snake in Guam!!! EvilMorphgod: OUT OF HAND!!!! HerpDude_nr: we regulate pollution and destruction with laws. but not invasives. EvilMorphgod: We do not have a normal eco system...not by a long shot...why are we complaining like we do??? EvilMorphgod: South Fla is just warm enough...not Oklahoma!!!!! EvilMorphgod: We regulate pollution? destruction? EvilMorphgod: that is a SCAM!!! HerpDude_nr: Burmese are up to Disney World, so Oklahoma is a good candidate EvilMorphgod: We allow the draining of an environment that may have rare creatures if the builder sets aside another area that may have nothing.... EvilMorphgod: NO WAY!! EvilMorphgod: We are DEVIOUS and only worried about our immediate needs! EvilMorphgod: Herdude...you are completely WRONG! EvilMorphgod: they will not make it! EvilMorphgod: Ok, so they are up to micky mouse land... EvilMorphgod: So? EvilMorphgod: Why are we not crying about the poor Eastern Diamondbacks that are vanishing because of US!!!!!!!! HerpDude_nr: Disney World is a different climatic zone than S.FL. HerpDude_nr: People are trying to protect the crotalids EvilMorphgod: Hype..... EvilMorphgod: Trying.... EvilMorphgod: Yes, we can try but i know the outcome... EvilMorphgod: RARE! EvilMorphgod: I am not a fan of people.... HerpDude_nr: Trying is often the best we can do. Instead of just give up? EvilMorphgod: We just blame everything else... PHFaust: NEVER EVER GIVE UP THE FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS! EvilMorphgod: We need to fight for our limited rights and educate people about our hobby! EvilMorphgod: Period! EvilMorphgod: We are talking about granules of sand while we are in a sandstorm! HerpDude_nr: Always "rights" but never talk of responsibilities. EvilMorphgod: The media and a few people are using the hype of south Florida burms to attack our keeping of exotic species... EvilMorphgod: they are using this loop hole and general human reptile ignorance...to attack us and fight us... EvilMorphgod: Responsibilities? EvilMorphgod: We are human and we will ALWAYS fail to be responsible...no matter how strict things become HerpDude_nr: Thanks. That answers my question. EvilMorphgod: So we just harp about people letting snakes go in Florida but ignore the fact that our everglades are being drained... EvilMorphgod: How about this! EvilMorphgod: Fact...EVERY SINGLE DAY.....there is less of that natural world i think about and more of our man made habitat!!!! HerpDude_nr: BTW - FL has spent $6 billion on restoring the Everglades. EvilMorphgod: How about fighting to keep things wild...before it is all gone.... EvilMorphgod: how about that? HerpDude_nr: I do. Every day. EvilMorphgod: Yes, man always waits until we have destroyed something to try to do something..... dingoblue: habitat altered by man in the form of light agriculture is beneficial for some herp species EvilMorphgod: it is good but in the grand scheme....nothing!!!!! EvilMorphgod: You need the everglades...the need the water... EvilMorphgod: you need the ability of the land to absorb the water.... dingoblue: saltwater intrusion in the glades is a real issue EvilMorphgod: we keep taking from it.... we are changing everything..... it has a HUGE HUGE price and we are talking about burms? EvilMorphgod: Yes, you are right about the sugar cane fields and such for example......Florida kings... EvilMorphgod: Good point dingo... dingoblue: yes it is politics, not science but when laws are made that make the politicians look eco friendly, they stay in office EvilMorphgod: Yes, every day we are losing our rights..... this is getting out of hand.... EvilMorphgod: "They" want us to sit at home and keep nothing....claim it endangers everyone.... EvilMorphgod: every day less rights!!! dingoblue: the environmental laws on tthe books are not enforced HerpDude_nr: Actually, as I said, "they" will let you keep everything -- even if it's banned. EvilMorphgod: Its funny how a species can be protected but its habitat not...only enforced if they have proof of a body...? EvilMorphgod: What did that do to protect the species? EvilMorphgod: Nothing!!! EvilMorphgod: I live in a state where the Timber Rattlesnake has SUFFERED such horrible stuff... EvilMorphgod: they are protected...but if the protected species is on private land it is Pot luck...the land owner can refuse Fish and Game access to the property...and destroy the habitat.... EvilMorphgod: the fines are so minimal to the big $$$ of a developer!!! HerpDude_nr: Yes, private land is a problem. FL has 10 million acres of protected habitat (state/fed parks, refuges,etc). SO we are trying. EvilMorphgod: Do you realize we are suffering laws that are created by people that know NOTHING about the animal they are limiting??? EvilMorphgod: HerpDude... EvilMorphgod: Do you really believe any of that? Do you think it is enough? EvilMorphgod: NOT A CHANCE!!!!!! BURMTIC: hey,,,,do you have any breeding projects for an albino Conda ? PS im woried because im in Georgia one state above FL and what if were next to the band of large constictors here. HerpDude_nr: We need to do more, yes. But I haven't given up. EvilMorphgod: They won't LIVE in GA...they would not be able to!!! EvilMorphgod: No albino greens for me... EvilMorphgod: That is terrible to realistically worry about a law that may be created to fend off something that can and will not happen!!!!! This is what happens when pin heads rule of logic! EvilMorphgod: Unfortunately this is much of the EXACT reality that is here in our country... Animalworld_nr: Some people dont even relize it but more and more anmals habitat are beiing distroyed because of there ''NEEDS'' EvilMorphgod: Man has HUGE HUGE needs and we absolutely destroy animal's and their habitats to create more "habitat" for us... EvilMorphgod: We are running out of space!!!! Animalworld_nr: yea EvilMorphgod: SERIOUSLY, it is quite sad if you think about it!!!! Animalworld_nr: i know i did a lectore that was about an hour to all the people on This chat site Animalworld_nr: The giant pandas are loseing there habitat and are becomeing extect Pithons: Being in a bad economy, have you seen less high end sales. The last 2 years I been buying high end boas to breed. What do you expect the reptile market will do in a worsening economy. Do you think high end snakes will hold its price. Because I cant sell a couple of snakes for less than offers I refused 6-9 months ago. Your opinion and experiance of high end sales in a bad economy, and what to expect if the economy keeps getting worse. EvilMorphgod: i do like albino greens for sure....but only so many things we can do! EvilMorphgod: Ok, bad economy...effects our high priced sales...BIG TIME!! EvilMorphgod: I always have to remind myself that we are just selling a snake with a nicer paint job!!! EvilMorphgod: There are sooo many amazing mutations out there for such cheap $$$... EvilMorphgod: if we went back 10 years we would be going nuts for what is around now... EvilMorphgod: i wish I had great news about the economy and snakes.... EvilMorphgod: it is tricky.. EvilMorphgod: they continue to sell but sometimes the prices are just not enough for the work(in my little feeble mind) EvilMorphgod: Don't forget...i have high overhead in this big building!!!! EvilMorphgod: Kara...god messy burrito...Hyde is ANGRY! KLG: Sorry sweetie! ab_nr: Kev, what do you think? Maybe the BLM can take over s.florida burms..round them up and auction them off?? You know to make some $ LIKE THEY DO OUT WEST? lol "Control the land, control the animals...AND you control the people" EvilMorphgod: If the South Fla thing was such a huge nightmare they could just get the skinner types in there.... EvilMorphgod: in third world nations that wipe them out... EvilMorphgod: Better to bitch and cry....study them.... gecko_nr: the male is chasing her around and is biting her EvilMorphgod: I don't like what they do out west to the Rattlesnakes that's for sure.... EvilMorphgod: I guess, they could use the same logic towards the South Florida Molurus! EvilMorphgod: Then she is not ready to breed and you should separate them.. EvilMorphgod: Is she big enough Separate cage....let her settle in and condition her.... EvilMorphgod: once she gets fat and plump she is more likely to cycle and accept the amels advances!!! KurtS_nr: Kevin, the report "Broken Screens" presented to the U.S. House of Representatives as H.R. 669 by the Defenders of Wildlife animal welfare group contains language that will unambiguously ban the entire reptile trade in this country If this report is voted on and becomes law. As a person who makes their living breeding pythons and other snakes, what steps have you personally taken to discredit this report? EvilMorphgod: We sign petitions...bitch complain and try to support the voices that we elect...PIJAC and such is a big deal... EvilMorphgod: That whole thing is that they want to list ALL reptiles as INVASIVE SPECIES and with a sweeping gesture ban all non indigenous species... EvilMorphgod: which will be the end of all of us and what we love... EvilMorphgod: This would be a NIGHTMARE!!!! EvilMorphgod: this means you could not find a bearded dragon or nothing at a pet sore.. EvilMorphgod: it would crush the pet store industry big time.. EvilMorphgod: This is BIG govt jumping on the hype band wagon.... and then creating more laws to restrict the people with... EvilMorphgod: More loop holes to come into our homes and take us to court, fine us, hinder us and drive us nuts!!! EvilMorphgod: We need education!! EvilMorphgod: We need to educate the public...no matter how small it may be... EvilMorphgod: if you don't like snakes because you saw them in the movies...you are a perfect ignorant person to want such laws!!!! pinespythons: what direction will the ball market go in the next few years EvilMorphgod: The ball market? Much like it is now...affordable mutations sell... EvilMorphgod: as time goes on we expand our mutations dropping the "simpler" ones into the average consumers grasp.... EvilMorphgod: All reptiles as invasive species...just think about that... EvilMorphgod: What next????????? EvilMorphgod: This is serious stuff!!!!!! Pithons: Wow, the government.. We truely have no rights.. EvilMorphgod: Realize this is based on hype about South Florida burms and states not wanting to deal with exotics.... EvilMorphgod: You know....a person loses a ball python in their apartment and it crawls out of another person's toilet.. EvilMorphgod: makes the news... EvilMorphgod: looks scary and insane... EvilMorphgod: Hmmm...politician wants to keep their people safe so let's limit the weird snake people from keeping them!! EvilMorphgod: The logic is RETARDED!!!! pinespythons: ya but will everything level off eventually? will lessers, pastels, pinstripes, etc all level off at a certain price or is the price going to keep going down so you can eventually get one as cheap as a normal EvilMorphgod: We do not need to keep making laws to protect us.... before long there will be a million billion reasons why we can get dragged into court or sued!!! EvilMorphgod: Yes, Level for sure.... EvilMorphgod: at a certain point they are absolutely worth every penny and people will buy them.... pinespythons: is it even worth it so buy lower end morphs right now or should i just buy higher end because by the time there adults the price will have dropped so much EvilMorphgod: Well, that comes down to what you like... EvilMorphgod: Higher still means there is some room and they are rarer.... less of them keeps the price up!!!! Dobry: Kevin are you worried as a buisness man that the government is going to take away your livelihood overnight? Is this a real possiblity? Have you consulted legal council or is this a scare tactic? EvilMorphgod: No, this is real..... EvilMorphgod: When you watch the news right now...do you actually believe what is happening to our economy? Dobry: I try not to watch the news EvilMorphgod: Can you believe that our TRUSTED GOVT has sooooooooo poorly managed sooo many things? They got caught being less than what we thought they were...they are corrupt and full of bad logic!!! EvilMorphgod: We are in some serious bad times...our economy is not going to get better in the near future by my view. EvilMorphgod: Can the govt take away our rights?? EvilMorphgod: yes, but can they get sued by us... i would expect that will have that to fear... Rouen: Kevin do you ever have people from Mass come to NH to buy chams EvilMorphgod: I think we must....Chameleons..... I don't make my guys ID... EvilMorphgod: I WILL NOT DO THAT!!!!! EvilMorphgod: I HATE THAT LAW!!!!! EvilMorphgod: Why in NH is it ok but not Mass...Maine...Rhode Island?? EvilMorphgod: And I don't mean that it should not be ok in NH!!!! JungleDancer: What do you think of the idea of using large reptiles for meat/leather production, similar to what we do with cows. It could be a great way to recycle large snakes and perhaps be another good source of meat for pet food market. If done humanely it might make sense to have a "farm" for large snakes. EvilMorphgod: That is like using 1,000 gallons to make 1 gallon of Ethanol!!!! Poor logic in my mind!!! EvilMorphgod: maybe going after South Fla burms for that... EvilMorphgod: But to raise big snakes and spend the $$$$ it takes to feed them and house them....does not seem to make sense... kind of like cutting down the rainforest and destroying the environment to make a hamburger!!! JungleDancer: that's kind of what I'm thinking, something to do with them when people get tired of them. EvilMorphgod: That may work over in Vietnam...... flboy21283: here in FL python meat HAS made it to the menus of some restaurants EvilMorphgod: it takes quite a bit of animal protein to raise a constrictor to skinning length!! flboy21283: that is one of the ways they are dealing with the severe ecology issues EvilMorphgod: Python meat..I wonder if it is imported..if it is then I HATE IT!!!! EvilMorphgod: If it is FLA burm then fine and dandy! EvilMorphgod: Realistically, there will always be people in the news with some big snake saga...we cringe when we watch it but that is the way it will be! Unless we stop being "allowed" to keep them... EvilMorphgod: We do not see or hear about the multitude of dog maulings and deaths on the news because many people are savvy to dogs and would not fall into the hype.... flboy21283: National Geographic will air a special in Sept 2009 discussing in detail the Severe ecology problems in FL basied on FACTS, not hype. Myself, Dr. Brad Moon,and several others from the Univerisy of FL and the University of Miami will be trying to relay information as detailed and factual as possible HerpDude_nr: Sorry, couldn't let that pass. Kevin/KurtS - have you actually read the bill, rather than PIJAC hype? The bill does NOT say what either of you just said. It's online -- Google HR669 -- read it. No blanket ban. EvilMorphgod: Snakes scare people....we make some poor judgments with them... EvilMorphgod: But at one point do we expect the Govt and State agencies to "protect" from the things in life that make our lives interesting????? EvilMorphgod: National Geo...does not ALWAYS stick to facts...I have watched stories with INCORRECT INFO!!!!! EvilMorphgod: So i do not 100% have faith in that.... EvilMorphgod: They may get most of it...hopefully with your added ideas...but... that has to be seen... flboy21283: They are going to make this show as Detailed and Factual as possible flboy21283: but you are right EvilMorphgod: I know what the US Fish and Game has spoken about...and the banning of ALL HERPS has been discussed..... this is fact!!!! This has been discussed early on...before all of this got sooo big! EvilMorphgod: I hope they do..... HerpDude_nr: But the fact is, that is not what the bill says. EvilMorphgod: we could also do a study and show what happens to a ball python that falls out of its constrained temp requirements... PHFaust: Last I read it, it was a blanket python ban. And I read the bill not PIJACS site EvilMorphgod: That ban is also being backed by animal rights freaks and PETA!!!!! Dr_Gonz0: booo peta EvilMorphgod: They get people in a froth and do not even understand their subjects!!! EvilMorphgod: I love animals more than most!!!! But animal rights freaks are out of control....the tiger should be free...not in a cage... HerpDude_nr: No, the actual bill doesn't ban anything. Not even pythons. You are thinking of Sen. Nelson's bad bill. EvilMorphgod: Err... did anyone happen to mention to them that they will be extinct rather soon since they have no safe haven???? EvilMorphgod: We make easy targets!!!!!! Dr_Gonz0: send them up to me in canada, they will be safe lol PHLdyPayne: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-669 for actual BIll information for those interested HerpDude_nr: SB373, I think. Not HR669. EvilMorphgod: Cool a python and watch what happens....will it live? nope likely...will it breed??? NO WAY!!!!! EvilMorphgod: Just for the record i have not been studying all of the verbiage of the proposed bans.... it makes me go nuts... EvilMorphgod: no matter how you slice it..if they get they dirty mitts into something the bigger fish is going to get put into the pan!!!! EvilMorphgod: We must fight for the limited rights we now presently have!!! EvilMorphgod: Remember, govt..... what they have just proven to us!! PHFaust: I would like to interject that with my workings with dogs, it is better to prevent these types of laws, because it is next to impossible to overturn them. It is easier to stop them EvilMorphgod: They make POOR decisions...they suffer from flawed logic...why would we think they know what is best for us??? EvilMorphgod: How about insurance companies that fear pit bulls?? EvilMorphgod: How they will not insure people with them? PHFaust: or anything that looks like them... Over turning laws is next to impossible. Ask Ohio, Denver, Ontario EvilMorphgod: Gee..... that breed can be amazing loyal family dogs while they would over look a nipper breed? ExoticHobbyist: been there EvilMorphgod: Fear mongering...take a few bad apples and generalize!!! EvilMorphgod: The news is all about HYPE!! EvilMorphgod: It is sad because the stuff they babble about our reptiles is DREADFUL and full of myth and untruth!! ExoticHobbyist: If it's not sensationalism it's not news EvilMorphgod: I cringe every time i hear them talk about reptiles in the news.... they get sooo much of it WRONG!!! EvilMorphgod: Once a law gets in....its IN!!! EvilMorphgod: How did we ever get to here without our Govt protecting us with their laws???? ExoticHobbyist: look at the turtle laws. think they will ever change? NO KurtS_nr: Directed to HerpDude - “Developing a national action plan to restrict the redistribution and translocation of all exotic wildlife to legitimate scientific and exhibition purposes.” This is the quote from the report "Broken Screens," from which the bill H.R.669 is based upon. EvilMorphgod: Yes...prevent them from crossing state lines... EvilMorphgod: Ohhhh...is that a bad thing!!!!!!!! EvilMorphgod: lacey act violation!!!! EvilMorphgod: Cindy i don't know if i did much positive..... PHFaust: I think you did Kevin... You told people it was alright to refuse sales.... Gave some guidelines for that... And also gave some great insight as to what is going on politically.... EvilMorphgod: They base this off of south Florida and every other state has to suffer? Triton20x: o yeah HerpDude_nr: KurtS- HR669 -Based upon--some, yes. But you are quoting a report, not the actual bill language. Triton20x: this is the talk about the hr699 flboy21283: What happened in south FL is no one's fault. it was an accident waiting to happen. EvilMorphgod: We don't want to see our snakes attacking people in the news...so i don't want to be the guy to sell it to the guy that had his mother eaten by a retic!! Not that that can really happen!! EvilMorphgod: happen! KurtS_nr: Exotic (means "non-native")wildlife could mean that I can't sell my house snakes at an expo in NH because they're not native to NH. Triton20x: there only banning them because there swimming across the ocean and eating the keys deer F3nix: The new laws the U.S., affect laws in other countries? EvilMorphgod: That law verbiage would be massive and very sweeping...there is NOTHING good in it!! That is fearful verbiage!!! Triton20x: there putting so many people out of buisness EvilMorphgod: Yes...all non native species!!!!! ALL!!!!! No bearded dragons in AMERICA!!!!!!!! Triton20x: there only against wall street being down EvilMorphgod: Every person that keeps any reptile should fear this law...or any law based on fear mongering and hype!!! ExoticHobbyist: we concentrate on the reptiles. This bill does not. are any other groups up in arms about this? KurtS_nr: "To prevent the introduction and establishment of nonnative wildlife species that negatively impact the economy, environment, or other animal species’ or human health, and for other purposes." This is the title of the Bill 669. It's the "and for other purposes" phrase that I really like. EvilMorphgod: If these laws passed here it would crush the industry in other countries too and turn the animals into food and SKINS!!!!!!! EvilMorphgod: #669 is a NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!!! F3nix: So with these new laws do not open export of animals? ExoticHobbyist: it states non native species. would this include tropical fish etc? Triton20x: well we probablly got like half of america signing the bill EvilMorphgod: That is them saying we won't have to deal with any of these species because they will all be illegal...good riddance! Triton20x: anything EvilMorphgod: Not the fish just yet... EvilMorphgod: No, export would be basically impossible!!!! ExoticHobbyist: aren't they non native? cthuleo: Not yet but eventually! Triton20x: wait EvilMorphgod: If we did it, then other courtiers would possibly follow!!! ExoticHobbyist: it does not say reptile species Triton20x: if we alreeady have snakes do they coma and take them away EvilMorphgod: Yes, beardies are....... so no one could have them! EvilMorphgod: Well, i think they are talking about exotic species...i think fish are labeled ornaments!!! EvilMorphgod: Yes, they would...and most likely destroy them if they did not have a zoo that wanted them!!! EvilMorphgod: They are famous for killing peoples animals......as evidence! EvilMorphgod: evidence!! EvilMorphgod: They used to do that in CA...a long time ago.....kill your collection...legal animals and illegal ones... EvilMorphgod: easier to deal with dead animals!!! HerpDude_nr: It's all animals, not just herps. And the law allows species to be approved for import, as well as banned. And, what you now own would not be affected. ExoticHobbyist: how about birds? EvilMorphgod: We could not breed new animals...... EvilMorphgod: That law is the END!!! EvilMorphgod: period!!!!!!! EvilMorphgod: I will freak out and cry like a little baby.... Triton20x: i say we load the shot guns Triton20x: and start a new war Triton20x: civil EvilMorphgod: If that law were to make it....i think I may need to leave this country! Triton20x: go to england EvilMorphgod: i could not even imagine ,, cthuleo: They'll have to pry them out of my cold dead hands!!! EvilMorphgod: i could not follow those rules........ out of hand!!!! Triton20x: so u dont have to learn some gay language EvilMorphgod: YEP! PHLdyPayne: We will love to have you up here Kevin.. Canada does have a fair market for reptiles...even if we have a small population, though many cities do have bans on large snakes ExoticHobbyist: he couldn't transport them across state lines EvilMorphgod: Canada is cool in my book(literally) they just seem easier minded....and better about their environment!!!!!! ballpython_nr: hey! Kev, you can come to mexico jeje EvilMorphgod: Mexico.... Si! EvilMorphgod: I think i would like the heat!! EvilMorphgod: and the herps...just not the water!!! cthuleo: It's completely rediculous! I cannot believe that this country has come to this! PHFaust: Kev would you like to close with anything before we end? EvilMorphgod: The end is NEAR!!!! EvilMorphgod: Go read about Sarah P. and what she does and thinks of her native wildlife!!!!! EvilMorphgod: Look at her bounties on Wolves!!!!! EvilMorphgod: I HATE HER!!!!! EvilMorphgod: and i was a dummy to vote for her!!!!!! EvilMorphgod: Just did not know enough!!! EvilMorphgod: Look at her video!! EvilMorphgod: Interviewed in front of a guy killing turkeys.. EvilMorphgod: killing wolves from planes and chopping of their foot for a reward!! PHLdyPayne: I wonder if politicians can be considered 'non native' and banned.... EvilMorphgod: And she could have been one of this countries leaders?????? EvilMorphgod: WHAT THE HECK????? flboy21283: let's not talk bad about wolves :) EvilMorphgod: She has no brain...... to imagine that she can make laws stick is frightening!!!!! EvilMorphgod: We are in trouble if this is the case...wait, we are already in trouble!!!! ExoticHobbyist: do any of them? StickyHands: woo EvilMorphgod: I LOVE WOLVES! jeffb: thats what you get for voting for someone from "OUT OF STATE" EvilMorphgod: I love almost anything that is not human! EvilMorphgod: RATS!!!!! EvilMorphgod: even!!! EvilMorphgod: So don't I. EvilMorphgod: Ok, are we done.... PHFaust: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us here at kingsnake.com, Thank You for taking your time to chat with us. Transcripts will be posted with in a few days. Once again, Thank you Kevin! PHFaust: Please visit Kevin and NERD's website at http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ EvilMorphgod: Thanks everyone!!!!!! EvilMorphgod: Sorry if i pissed anyone off...... but that is the way I roll!! EvilMorphgod: Kevin PHFaust: Thanks Kev. You are always a great guest and speak your mind! EvilMorphgod: Yes, I always will....... PHFaust: and that's why I love you EvilMorphgod: Night people!!!!!! EvilMorphgod: Yes, I love you too...but really love JEFF B!!! jeffb: aw shucks kev
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