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PHAbymom: Good evening! On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at PetHobbyist.com, welcome to our Ninth Annual Chat Week!

PHAbymom: Our guest this evening is Edward Moser, MS, VMD, DACVN.

Dr. Moser holds diplomate status with the American College of Veterinary Nutrition, and advanced degrees from the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine (where he is an adjunct assistant professor of Veterinary Nutrition) and The Ohio State University. Dr. Moser believes "You are what you eat!" and that incorporating a holistic approach to a healthy, nutritious diet is the foundation of well-being. Dr. Moser has consulted with leading companies in the animal health industry since 1990, indlucing the Wellness brand of natural food and treats for pets.

Dr. Moser will be discussing topics in canine and feline nutrition tonight, and taking your questions as well.

If at any time during that chat you have a question or comment for Dr. Moser, please type a ? or ! into the room. The host will add your name to the queue and call on you when it's your turn. Please have your question typed and ready to send to the room when you're called on. Please don't chat openly in the room while our guest is here.

PHAbymom: Thanks so much for being here tonight, Dr. Moser! Did you want to open with some comments before taking questions?

fireladie: ?

DrMoser_nr: Good evening! We're going to talk tonight about feeding dogs and cats. A lot of what we talk about is not only the food itself, but food management practices and our choices.

Owners today have access to many choices in the way they can feed their dogs and cats. Hopefully we can entertain questions related to choosing diets, and how to successfully present them to the dog or cat. Let's go ahead with your questions now.

NotAPBTs_nr: Can we get an overview on the merits of canned vs dry food, esp for the male cats who are prone to FLUTD? Thank you!

DrMoser_nr: Let's start out by defining the primary attributes of the diet - a dry food is going to be around 10 percent moisture, 90 percent of the food is food matter, 10 percent is water. With the canned, around 75 percent is water.

In addition, the ingredient choices differ somewhat, in that canned foods rely more on high moisture ingredients, whereas dry foods rely more on dry meals, dry ingredients.

Many dry foods today add fresh meat as an ingredient, but even so, dry matter percentage is around 90 percent.

Both types of foods can be very variable in fat and protein content. And the way to determine or compare dry foods to canned foods is to look at their guaranteed analysis, which appears on the label. It appears on an "as fed" basis, which means that it's diluted with however much water is in the product. So you can't compare a canned and a dry label without converting them to a dry matter basis.

You have to compare dry food and the canned food on a dry matter basis. The way you do that is to divide the number, for, for instance, protein - the number that appears on the label - by the percentage of dry matter. That'll give you a dry matter percentage for protein or fat or fiber, and you can then compare a dry and canned food as to how much protein or fat is in it.

The next thing to compare dry and canned foods is palatability. With dogs, palatability varies between dry and canned - some dogs prefer dry, some dogs prefer canned. Cats generally prefer wet food in my experience.

As far as this question, what about the cat who has had an episode of FLUTD? One of the risk factors for that disease is inadeqate or low water intake. One of the suggestions to control FLUTD is to increase the amount of water consumed, thereby having a more dilute urine and more frequent voiding of urine out of the bladder. Studies have shown that cats that are fed canned foods, high moisture foods, have consumed more water during any given day than cats fed dry food. I recommend you discuss with your vet if the cat is at risk for FLUTD and whether they are drinking enough water.

NYC_NYIfan: One of my cats was adopted from a shelter in July 2005. He was mildly overweight but quickly lost lots of weight due to overgrowth of intestinal bacteria. He improved with low-residue food being added, but then suddenly lost weight again. Blood and urine tests showed him high-normal thyroid. He is not my only cat so I haven't been able to bring a fecal in yet that I know is his. Would he be better off with low-residue IBD-type food or a concentrated food like a/d?

DrMoser_nr: My recommendation would be, obviously, follow up on the workups you're going to get ... a full medical workup. In the meantime, because the animal has lost weight, feed a low residue, highly concentrated diet -low residue only meaning LOW FIBER. I would also encourage that diet to be low fiber, as well as high in protein and high in fat

DrMoser_nr: a/d is a good choice

NYC_NYIfan: thanks.

PHCatByte: fireladie, you're up!

DrMoser_nr: you're welcome

fireladie: Diesel is a 6 month old Tabby/Siamese mix cat. She weighs approximately 6lbs and is currently on Nutro MaxCat Kitten Food. She has been on it since I got her at 8 weeks. Is this an appropriate food for her, and when can she be switched to adult food?

DrMoser_nr: That was an appropriate food. As far as switching to an adult food, at 6 months of age, any time now.

fireladie: Oh okay, thank you

DrMoser_nr: You're welcome

moab3mutts: Antech Diagnostics had a 2003 report explaining some blood test levels that may be "out of normal" range when a dog is on raw (I feed basically Pitcairn's, with few bones)? I've seen that report, which includes higher PCV and BUN values, but am just wondering if there's anything newer or better, that I can take to my fairly traditional but open-minded vet.

DrMoser_nr: No, I am not familiar with why there would be repeatable abnormal hematological values on a dog on a raw diet. They might be higher within the normal range but I wouldn't expect them to have ABNORMAL blood values.

moab3mutts: Thanks. I guess it's just that what is usually considered "normal" may not be in the same range for raw-fed.

thedoc617: I have a Shih Tzu- she is extremely allergic to a lot of things. She goes into periods where she gets horrible skin infections and red-colored tearstains. I dont' know if she is allergic to any types of food- but I know for a fact that the lower brand supermarket foods are absolutely horrible, but at the same time, I tried a top quality high end food (Innova EVO) and she still reacted extremely bad on it. I would feed homemade, but I am a college student and I don't really have enough money for it. My question is, should i do some type of elimination diet?

DrMoser_nr: You are completely on the right track. That is exactly what I would do - an elimination diet.

thedoc617: And is there any elimination diet that uses kibble- or does it have to be homemade?

DrMoser_nr: You could use kibble - there's a wide variety of novel protein, novel carbohydrate commercial kibbles to choose from

thedoc617: Okay- thank you. i'll look into it.

DrMoser_nr: You're welcome

spookieed_nr: I have a cat that had calcium oxalate stones, they were removed a couple months ago. I also have 8 other cats. A few only eat dry. I am looking at home cooking for them. What is the best way to get more moisture into them and what are the concerns of homecooking for cats? Will they all be able to eat one kind of homecooked diet?

DrMoser_nr: The home cooking idea is a good one - you should be able to monitor how much moisture you are getting into the cats by monitoring how wet you make the food. For something to compare it to, compare the moisture content of the food you make, vs something you would buy in a can, just by grabbing it and squeezing it, and being able to judge if it's around 75 percent moisture - or you could have it tested in a laboratory. If indeed you choose to feed dry diets to the cats and not do the home cooking, there are some diets that make a more acidic urine than others, and with calcium oxalate stones, you want to make sure the diet is not excessively acidifying, which would be the opposite of the cats who have struvites.

spookieed_nr: Can all the cats eat the same homemade diet

DrMoser_nr: Yes

Hope_nr: Our dog is a one year old Bolognese dog who had poor results from a bile acid test. A liver shunt is suspected and I need to know what kind of food and how often to feed him to try to manage his condition. Also what type dog treats can I feed him? He weighs about 8 and 1/2 pounds.He always seems hungry. Thank you.

DrMoser_nr: This would be a very individual treatment depending on clinical response. It really needs to be worked on directly under the supervision of a vet who is seeing the bloodwork, seeing the dog.

Hope_nr: I am giving him carrots for snacks..is that OK?

DrMoser_nr: Absolutely

Hope_nr: Low protein being advised, is wet food better than canned?

DrMoser_nr: What really is critical is monitoring protein and energy, and treats that are mostly water won't matter, the veterinarian will mostly be manipulating protein and fat with this dog's diet. Canned and dry can be identical in protein, or very different.

Hope_nr: What about yogurt?

DrMoser_nr: You really need to work with a vet who is treating the dog on this one, Hope.

Hope_nr: Thank you.

PHGinger: I have 3 basset hounds - 2 are older and pudgie and one is a year old puppy. I feed the two older ones SD light kibble and try to feed the pup SD regular kibble but he much prefers their light. Is it ok to feed him light or should we find a regular he will eat?

PHGinger: It is getting to be quite a problem. He is 13 month BTW

DrMoser_nr: The puppy is of normal weight and normal everything at this point?

PHGinger: yes

PHGinger: We started having trouble when we switched off of puppy food

DrMoser_nr: The real difference between the light and maintenance is really the fat and fiber levels, with the light being lower in fat, at around 9 percent, and higher in fiber, at around 13 percent so the issue here is two-fold. One is, it's fine if the puppy can maintain an appropriate body weight and secondly, it's also going to produce more stool than you might expect. You're probably familiar with the stool issue if the other two are on it. Those are the only two things I'd be concerned about.

PHGinger: Thank you

DrMoser_nr: Can I say something here about obesity in pets?

PHCatByte: please do, dr moser!

DrMoser_nr: Over-comsumption of calories resulting in excess of body fat is the most prevalent form of malnutrition. 34 percent of adult pets and up to 44 percent of pets aged 5-11, are overweight. Overweight and obese dogs are more likely to be diagnosed with certain diseases. But more importantly, a lifetime study of restricted daily intake of the same foods was conducted on 48 Labrador retreiver puppies from 7 litters, from eight weeks until death. There was a control free choice fed group, and a pair restricted fed group

DrMoser_nr: and the pair restricted group ate about 25 percent less. The take home point is that the median lifespan of the restricted fed group was longer, by 1.8 years. Causes of death were similar between the two feeding groups. The only difference between the two groups was difference in time of death. Dogs fed controlled caloric intake who maintain a desired body weight live longer.

DrMoser_nr: The question then would be, do you know how much your dogs weighs? Do you know how many grams of food your dog eats? These are general issues for everyone.

DrMoser_nr: That's the key in most of these situations, that people be aware and take steps to approach a desired body weight and a desired body condition. That's the one thing I'd most like people to take home from this chat

DrMoser_nr: We can go back to questions now, thanks!

Time01: I see a lot of so called puppy food in the stores, in general is that actual good for pups or cause rapid growth and joint problems?

DrMoser_nr: Puppy food is formulated to be high protein, high fat food to promote optimal growth. The problem becomes, certain breeds of dogs when fed this concentrated diet, grow too fast. This is especially true of the large breeds and giant breeds so, the answer to the question is, yes, there is a problem with dogs growing too fast and the way to limit the fast growth is to design a diet that's less concentrated, less energy dense, than a traditional puppy food.

That's what the impetus was to produce all these large breed puppy formulas. What they really are, is puppy foods made to look more like maintanence foods. Their objective is simply to slow down growth. You really answered your own question. The answer is yes.

PHBlackBear: I have a 6 yr old Rottie who is fed Merrick Wilderness Blend, and salmon oil supplements. Now that he is getting older, are there any supplements that I should add to his diet?

DrMoser_nr: Can you say more about the food? I am not familiar with the Wilderness Blend.

PHBlackBear: Its buffalo, venison, salmon, potatos, carrots, peas, apples, blueberries, whole grains and minerals. It's a dry food.

DrMoser_nr: Okay

PHBlackBear: I mix it with a little yogurt and water to make a gravy

DrMoser_nr: On the surface, from the description, it sounds like an adequate diet. With the salmon oil, I assume you are looking for DHA and EPA and Omega 3 benefits. One of the compelling things I think that people with older pets could be thinking about.

PHBlackBear: Yes Dr. Moser

DrMoser_nr: And an area in the infancy of research is the link between antioxidant supplementation and cognitive function in the older pet. There have been some publications that have looked at fortified diets wiith vitamin C, vitamin E, fruits and vegetables, lycopene, that kind of thing, that have shown to be very promising in negating the effects of aging that could be taking place in the nervous system. So I think that, along with what you're already doing, is a good step for an older dog.

moab3mutts: How about glucosamine/chondroitin, more probiotics than a little yogurt provides?

DrMoser_nr: Those are good supplements for an older dog.

PHBlackBear: Thank you.

DrMoser_nr: You're welcome.

PHCatByte: Dr moser, what's a good website for people to learn the basics of nutrition from? Especially for folks whose vets seem to not go much beyond, "feed science diet, because i sell it?"

DrMoser_nr: What I generally tell people to do is when you just type in things of interest, one of the best places to start is acvn.org It has a group of tutorials you can visit. They're very helpful - they're set up like teaching modules. That would be a good place to start. There are all kinds of universities that have their class notes available. You sometimes have to search around, but you often find veterinary school notes from people's classes are very helpful and very fun to read.

PHCatByte: Wonderful, thanks! there's so much confusion, and so much argument.

DrMoser_nr: Healthy debate

darkstarr_nr: I feed a homemade diet and I used AAFCO and NRC'85 to figure out nutrients. It seems like there's a new NRC recommendtaion with lower calcium for adult dogs than AAFCO - what do you knwo about that and can I use it?

DrMoser_nr: I have the new dog and cat NRC, but I haven't delved into the new calcium and phosphorus issues yet.

darkstarr_nr: It's so expensive and it seemed like it wouldn't be in the libraries yet so I don't know what it says.

DrMoser_nr: I would be hesitant to use the NRC too quickly

DrMoser_nr: and replace the AAFCO numbers

moab3mutts: Sorry - what is NRC?

DrMoser_nr: Simply because AAFCO has the safety allowances built into them

darkstarr_nr: IS AAFCO likely to do a new recommendtaion any time soon to follow?

DrMoser_nr: National Research Council

DrMoser_nr: They're already talking about it

darkstarr_nr: Okay thanks, I'll wait.

DrMoser_nr: There is a LOT of material. I've had it a while now, and I haven't even scratched the surface yet. It's around 400 pages

DrMoser_nr: You're welcome

DrMoser_nr: ga

PHAbymom: I'm afraid that's all we have time for tonight. Dr. Moser, thank you so much for being with us tonight, and thanks to everyone for attending as well! Goodnight!

NYC_NYIfan: Niters and thanks to hosties, thanks to Dr.Moser

DrMoser_nr: Thank you very much, everyone!

PHMadameAlto: Thanks for a great chat!

PHMadameAlto: Most informative!

PHBlackBear: Thank you Dr. Moser for a great chat

DrMoser_nr: My pleasure